pagan continuity hypothesis pagan continuity hypothesis

Continuity Questions - 36 Questions About Continuity - QuestionDB So how to put this? And she happened to find it on psilocybin. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. I go out of my way, in both parts of the book, which, it's divided into the history of beer and the history of wine, essentially. And for some reason, I mean, I'd read that two or three times as an undergrad and just glossed over that line. Now, I've had experiences outside the Eucharist that resonate with me. This is going to be a question that's back to the ancient world. And I describe that as somehow finding that key to immortality. And so with a revised ancient history, in place Brian tacks back to the title of our series, Psychedelics and the Future of Religion. So those are all possibly different questions to ask and answer. pagan continuity hypothesis - diamondamotel.com And much of the evidence that you've collected is kind of the northern half of the Mediterranean world. So what have you learned about the Eleusinian mysteries in particular since Ruck took this up, and what has convinced you that Ruck's hypothesis holds water? Little attempt has been made, however, to bridge the gap between \"pagan\" and \"Christian\" or to examine late antique, Christian attitudes toward sexuality and marriage from the viewpoint of the \"average\" Christian. But I'm pressing you because that's my job. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. PDF The continuity between pagan and Christian cult - Scandinavia The Immortality Key Book Summary by Brian C. Muraresku We're going to get there very soon. These-- that-- Christians are spread out throughout the eastern Mediterranean, and there are many, many pockets of people practicing what we might call, let's just call it Christian mysticism of some kind. He's joining us from Uruguay, where he has wisely chosen to spend his pandemic isolation. What's the wine? So Brian, I wonder, maybe we should give the floor to you and ask you to speak about, what are the questions you think both ancient historians such as myself should be asking that we're not, and maybe what are the sorts of questions that people who aren't ancient historians but who are drawn to this evidence, to your narrative, and to the present and the future of religion, what sort of questions should they be asking regarding psychedelics? Maybe there's some residual fear that's been built up in me. Now-- and I think that we can probably concede that. And I think that that's the real question here. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. That they were what you call extreme beverages. . The pagan continuity hypothesis theorizes that when Christianity arrived in Greece around AD 49, it didn't suddenly replace the existing religion. The Tim Ferriss Show - #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin Because at my heart, I still consider myself a good Catholic boy. Frankly, if you ask the world's leading archaeobotanists and archaeochemists, where's the spiked beer and where's the spiked wine, which I've been doing since about 2007, 2008, the resounding answer you'll get back from everybody is a resounding no. And that's where oversight comes in handy. They linked the idea of witches to an imagined organized sect which was a danger to the Christian commonwealth. Throughout his five books he talks about wine being mixed with all kinds of stuff, like frankincense and myrrh, relatively innocuous stuff, but also less innocuous things like henbane and mandrake, these solanaceous plants which he specifically says is fatal. And we had a great chat, a very spirited chat about the mysteries and the psychedelic hypothesis. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian I'm going to stop asking my questions, although I have a million more, as you well know, and instead try to ventriloquist the questions that are coming through at quite a clip through the Q&A. In fact, something I'm following up on now is the prospect of similar sites in the Crimea around the Black Sea, because there was also a Greek presence there. I want to thank you for putting up with me and my questions. Because they talk about everything else that they take issue with. The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark CHARLES STANG: OK. So this whole water to wine thing was out there. So if you were a mystic and you were into Demeter and Persephone and Dionysus and you were into these strange Greek mystery cults, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better place to spend your time than [SPEAKING GREEK], southern Italy, which in some cases was more Greek than Greek. It would have parts of Greek mysticism in it, the same Greek mysteries I've spent all these years investigating, and it would have some elements of what I see in paleo-Christianity. CHARLES STANG: Thank you, Brian. The Wanderer | Old English Poetry Project | Rutgers University So Brian, welcome. Now that doesn't mean, as Brian was saying, that then suggests that that's the norm Eucharist. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. And he was actually going out and testing some of these ancient chalices. Like, what is this all about? A lot of Christianity, as you rightly point out, I mean, it was an Eastern phenomenon, all over the eastern Mediterranean. I'll invite him to think about the future of religion in light of all this. If we're being honest with ourselves, when you've drunk-- and I've drunk that wine-- I didn't necessarily feel that I'd become one with Jesus. So don't feel like you have to go into great depth at this point. But I think the broader question of what's the reception to this among explicitly religious folk and religious leaders? And at some point in my narrative, I do include mention of Gobekli Tepe, for example, which is essentially twice the age of Stonehenge. Now that the pagan continuity hypothesis is defended, the next task is to show that the pagan and proto-Christian ritual sacraments were, in fact, psychedelicbrews. So if Eleusis is the Fight Club of the ancient world, right, the first rule is you don't talk about it. Let's move to early Christian. So why do you think psychedelics are so significant that they might usher in a new Reformation? The continuity theory of normal aging states that older adults will usually maintain the same activities, behaviors, relationships as they did in their earlier years of life. And the big question for me was what was that something else? It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and improving CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. Now, you could draw the obvious conclusion. And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. That's staying within the field of time. These two accuse one Gnostic teacher named Marcus-- who is himself a student of the famous theologian Valentinus-- they accuse him of dabbling in pharmacological devilry. There was an absence of continuity in the direction of the colony as Newport made his frequent voyages to and . And I'll just list them out quickly. So Pompeii and its environs at the time were called [SPEAKING GREEK], which means great Greece. We have an hour and a half together and I hope there will be time for Q&A and discussion. To become truly immortal, Campbell talks about entering into a sense of eternity, which is the infinite present here and now. The universality of frontiers, however, made the hypothesis readily extendable to other parts of the globe. And so in some of these psychedelic trials, under the right conditions, I do see genuine religious experiences. First, the continuity of the offices must be seen in light of the change of institutional charges; they had lost their religious connotations and had become secular. President and CEO, First Southeast Financial Corp and First Federal Savings and Loan Director, Carolina First Bank and The South Financial Group And now we have a working hypothesis and some data to suggest where we might be looking. What was being thrown into it? And very famous passages, by the way, that should be familiar to most New Testament readers. So I point to that evidence as illustrative of the possibility that the Christians could, in fact, have gotten their hands on an actual wine. I know that's another loaded phrase. . So Dionysus is not the god of alcohol. I really tried. So we move now into ancient history, but solidly into the historical record, however uneven that historical record is. So the basic point being, as far as we can tell, beer and wine are routinely mixed with things that we don't do today. What I see is data that's been largely neglected, and I think what serves this as a discipline is just that. So I really follow the scholarship of Enriqueta Pons, who is the archaeologist on site there, at this Greek sanctuary that we're talking about in Catalonia, Mas Castellar des Pontos. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Maybe for those facing the end of life. Because every time I think about ancient wine, I am now immediately thinking about wine that is spiked. That's just everlasting. But what we do know about the wine of the time is that it was routinely mixed with plants and herbs and potentially fungi. Nage ?] The divine personage in whom this cult centered was the Magna Mater Deum who was conceived as the source of all life as well as the personification of all the powers of nature.\[Footnote:] Willoughby, Pagan Regeneration, p. 114.\ 7 She was the "Great Mother" not only "of all the gods," but of all men" as well. Klaus Schmidt, who was with the German Archaeological Institute, called this a sanctuary and called these T-shaped pillars representations of gods. But maybe you could just say something about this community in Catalonia. You want to field questions in both those categories? And it seems to me that if any of this is right, that whatever was happening in ancient Greece was a transformative experience for which a lot of thought and preparation went into. And there were gaps as well. They minimized or completely removed the Jewish debates found in the New Testament, and they took on a style that was more palatable to the wider pagan world. It was-- Eleusis was state-administered, a somewhat formal affair. Now, here's-- let's tack away from hard, scientific, archaeobotanical evidence for a moment. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. Which, if you think about it, is a very elegant idea. Because ergot is just very common. We have plays like the Bacchi from Euripides, where we can piece together some of this. And there are legitimate scholars out there who say, because John wanted to paint Jesus in the light of Dionysus, present him as the second coming of this pagan God. And I did not dare. Tim Ferriss Show Podcast Notes OK. Now let's pan back because, we have-- I want to wrap up my interrogation of you, which I've been pressing you, but I feel as if perhaps people joining me think I'm hostile to this hypothesis. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. And that's what I get into in detail in the book. So what I think we have here in this ergtotized beer drink from Catalonia, Spain, and in this weird witch's brew from 79 AD in Pompeii, I describe it, until I see evidence otherwise, as some of the very first heart scientific data for the actual existence of actual spiked wine in classical antiquity, which I think is a really big point. But Egypt seems to not really be hugely relevant to the research. Then I'll ask a series of questions that follow the course of his book, focusing on the different ancient religious traditions, the evidence for their psychedelic sacraments, and most importantly, whether and how the assembled evidence yields a coherent picture of the past. Something else I include at the end of my book is that I don't think that whatever this was, this big if about a psychedelic Eucharist, I don't think this was a majority of the paleo-Christians. So psychedelics or not, I think it's the cultivation of that experience, which is the actual key. It pushes back the archaeology on some of this material a full 12,000 years. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries They found a tiny chalice this big, dated to the second century BC. And not least because if I were to do it, I'd like to do so in a deeply sacred ritual. You also find a Greek hearth inside this sanctuary. I'm not. But in Pompeii, for example, there's the villa of the mysteries, one of these really breathtaking finds that also survived the ravage of Mount Vesuvius. I took this to Greg [? John H Elliott - Empires Of The Atlantic World.pdf And what about the alleged democratization with which you credit the mysteries of Dionysus, or the role of women in that movement? You take a board corporate finance attorney, you add in lots of childhood hours watching Indiana Jones, lots of law school hours reading Dan Brown, you put it all together and out pops The Immortality Key. His aim when he set out on this journey 12 years ago was to assess the validity of a rather old, but largely discredited hypothesis, namely, that some of the religions of the ancient Mediterranean, perhaps including Christianity, used a psychedelic sacrament to induce mystical experiences at the border of life and death, and that these psychedelic rituals were just the tip of the iceberg, signs of an even more ancient and pervasive religious practice going back many thousands of years. CHARLES STANG: Well, Mr, Muraresku, you are hedging your bets here in a way that you do not necessarily hedge your bets in the book. BRIAN MURARESKU: I look forward to it, Charlie. I mean, I asked lots of big questions in the book, and I fully acknowledge that. So I present this as proof of concept, and I heavily rely on the Gospel of John and the data from Italy because that's what was there. That's our next event, and will be at least two more events to follow. In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. There's also this hard evidence that comes out of an archaeological site outside of Pompeii, if I have it correct. No, I think you-- this is why we're friends, Charlie. Now is there any evidence for psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, and if not, do you have any theory as to why that's silent? Not because it's not there, because it hasn't been tested. So frankly, what happens during the Neolithic, we don't know, at least from a scientific vantage. Not just in Italy, but as kind of the headquarters for the Mediterranean. You know, it's an atheist using theological language to describe what happened to her. Is this only Marcus? And I'm not even sure what that piece looks like or how big it is. And if it only occurs in John, the big question is why. What does ergotized beer in Catalonia have anything to do with the Greek mysteries at Eleusis? And I hear-- I sense that narrative in your book. Here's what we don't. Brought to you by Wealthfront high-yield savings account, Peloton Row premium rower for an efficient workout, and You Need A Budget cult-favorite money management app.. Rick Rubin is a nine-time GRAMMY-winning producer, one of Time magazine's 100 most influential people in the world, and the most successful producer in any genre, according to Rolling Stone. All episodes of The Tim Ferriss Show - Chartable Brian has been very busy taking his new book on the road, of course, all online, and we're very grateful to him for taking the time to join us this evening. Before the church banned their use, early Christians used - Substack Whether there's a psychedelic tradition-- I mean, there are some suggestive paintings. What's the importance of your abstention from psychedelics, given what is obvious interest. 283. CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF WORLD RELIGIONS, Harvard Divinity School42 Francis Avenue, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 617.495.4495, my.hds |Harvard Divinity School |Harvard University |Privacy |Accessibility |Digital Accessibility | Trademark Notice |Reporting Copyright Infringements. So that, actually, is the key to the immortality key. In May of last year, researchers published what they believe is the first archaeochemical data for the use of psychoactive drugs in some form of early Judaism. Because very briefly, I think Brian and others have made a very strong case that these things-- this was a biotechnology that was available in the ancient world. And I want to say that this question that we've been exploring the last half hour about what all this means for the present will be very much the topic of our next event on February 22, which is taking up the question of psychedelic chaplaincy. And I don't know what that looks like. And all we know-- I mean, we can't decipher sequence by sequence what was happening. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. So can you reflect for us where you really are and how you chose to write this book? It is my great pleasure to welcome Brian Muraresku to the Center. And when I started to get closer into the historical period-- this is all prehistory. And that's all I present it as, is wonderfully attractive and maybe even sexy circumstantial evidence for the potential use of a psychedelic sacrament amongst the earliest Christians. Wonderful, well, thank you. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. First act is your evidence for psychedelics among the so-called pagan religions in the ancient Mediterranean and Near East. Continuity Hypothesis - Keith E Rice's Integrated SocioPsychology Blog Here is how I propose we are to proceed. And the reason I find that a worthy avenue of pursuit is because when you take a step back and look at the Greek of the Gospels, especially the Greek of John, which is super weird, what I see based on Dennis MacDonald's scholarship that you mentioned-- and others-- when you do the exegesis of John's gospel, there's just lots of vocabulary and lots of imagery that doesn't appear elsewhere. But this clearly involved some kind of technical know-how and the ability to concoct these things that, in order to keep them safe and efficacious, would not have been very widespread, I don't think. This discussion on Febrary 1, 2021, between CSWR Director Charles Stang and Brian Muraresku about his new book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,a groundbreaking dive into the role of psychedelics in the ancient Mediterranean world. I would love to see these licensed, regulated, retreat centers be done in a way that is medically sound and scientifically rigorous. And so how far should this investigation go? And so I don't know what a really authentic, a really historic-looking ritual that is equal parts sacred, but also, again, medically sound, scientifically rigorous, would look like. So if you don't think that you are literally consuming divine blood, what is the point of religion? Or maybe in palliative care. 13,000 years old. Like in a retreat pilgrimage type center, or maybe within palliative care. And I think oversight also comes in handy within organized religion. If you are drawn to psychedelics, in my mind, it means you're probably drawn to contemplative mysticism. I opened the speculation, Dr. Stang, that the Holy Grail itself could have been some kind of spiked concoction. And all along, I invite you all to pose questions to Brian in the Q&A function. I'm skeptical, Dr. Stang. So can you reflect on the-- standing on the threshold of pharmaceutical companies taking control of this, how is that to be commended when the very people who have kept this alive would be pushed to the side in that move? BRIAN MURARESKU: I don't-- I don't claim too heavily. So how exactly is this evidence of something relevant to Christianity in Rome or southern Italy more widely? So throughout the book, you make the point that ancient beer and wine are not like our beer and wine. So I think it's really interesting details here worth following up on. And this is at a time when we're still hunting and gathering. Origin of the Romanians - Wikipedia And that's not how it works today, and I don't think that's how it works in antiquity. And what you're referring to is-- and how I begin the book is this beautiful Greek phrase, [SPEAKING GREEK]. So it's hard for me to write this and talk about this without acknowledging the Jesuits who put me here. Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? : r/AskHistorians - reddit Like in Israel. But what I hear from people, including atheists, like Dina Bazer, who participated in these Hopkins NYU trials is that she felt like on her one and only dose of psilocybin that she was bathed in God's love. I include that line for a reason. You can see that inscribed on a plaque in Saint Paul's monastery at Mount Athos in Greece. From about 1500 BC to the fourth century AD, it calls to the best and brightest of not just Athens but also Rome. And there you also found mortars that were tested and also tested positive for evidence of brewing. And considering the common background of modern religions (the Pagan Continuity hypothesis), any religious group who thinks they are chosen or correct are promoting a simplistic and ignorant view of our past. So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things. I mean, in the absence of the actual data, that's my biggest question. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More | Tim Ferriss Show #646 But the point being, the religion of brewing seems to pop up at the very beginning of civilization itself, or the very beginning of monumental engineering at this world's first sanctuary. So why the silence from the heresiologists on a psychedelic sacrament? I'm trying to get him to speak in the series about that. All right, so now, let's follow up with Dionysus, but let's see here. And I got to say, there's not a heck of a lot of eye rolling, assuming people read my afterword and try to see how careful I am about delineating what is knowable and what is not and what this means for the future of religion. What about all these early Christians themselves as essentially Jews? Like savory, wormwood, blue tansy, balm, senna, coriander, germander, mint, sage, and thyme. He calls it a drug against grief in Greek, [SPEAKING GREEK]. Oh, I hope I haven't offended you, Brian. And if there's historical precedent for it, all the more so. But what we do know is that their sacrament was wine and we know a bit more about the wine of antiquity, ancient Greek wine, than we can piece together from these nocturnal celebrations. Biblical Entheogens: a Speculative Hypothesis - ResearchGate Then what was the Gospel of John, how did it interpret the Eucharist and market it, and so on. Brought to you by And I think that's an important distinction to make. Here's your Western Eleusis. I'm not sure many have. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. How does, in other words, how does religion sit with science? Some number of people have asked about Egypt. And why, if you're right that the church has succeeded in suppressing a psychedelic sacrament and has been peddling instead, what you call a placebo, and that it has exercised a monstrous campaign of persecution against plant medicine and the women who have kept its knowledge alive, why are you still attached to this tradition? Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion 3 days ago Plants of the Gods: S4E1. I also sense another narrative in your book, and one you've flagged for us, maybe about 10 minutes ago, when you said that the book is a proof of concept. Now, I mentioned that Brian and I had become friends. Who were the Saints? All he says is that these women and Marcus are adding drugs seven times in a row into whatever potion this is they're mixing up. And we know from the record that [SPEAKING GREEK] is described as being so crowded with gods that they were easier to find than men. And how can you reasonably expect the church to recognize a psychedelic Eucharist? Others would argue that they are perfectly legal sacraments, at least in the Native American church with the use of peyote, or in the UDV or Santo Daime, I mean, ayahuasca does work in some syncretic Christian form, right? BRIAN MURARESKU:: It's a simple formula, Charlie. I mean, what-- my big question is, what can we say about the Eucharist-- and maybe it's just my weird lens, but what can we say about it definitively in the absence of the archaeochemstry or the archaeobotany? I don't know why it's happening now, but we're finally taking a look. Now, I've never done them myself, but I have talked to many, many people who've had experience with psychedelics. In this episode, Brian C. Muraresku, who holds a degree from Brown University in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit,  joins Breht to discuss his fascinating book "The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name", a groundbreaking dive into the use of hallucinogens in ancient Greece, the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, the role of the Eucharist in early Christianity, the . And so in my afterword, I present this as a blip on the archaeochemical radar. So even from the very beginning, it wasn't just barley and water. On Monday, February 22, we will be hosting a panel discussion taking up the question what is psychedelic chaplaincy.