We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. The loft difference in the AP2 7 iron and AP3 6 iron is 6 degrees apart. Most people won't hit a 2 iron off the fairway though, so they probably won't take a divot at all As far as bounce goes, do you really think a club going 100 mph is going to be affected by 2 less of bounce? Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 716 MB'S. If experience still trumps explanations, simulations and printouts, print out some ebay listings there are lots of older sets with barely used 3 irons. However, even a degree difference can affect the direction where the ball might start out and can be the difference between you hitting the green, and you landing in a bunker! But if it'll mess up the performance or whatnot, I'm not messing with it. I couldn't agree more, they are a thing of beauty but also of art, it'll change the effect the way the club goes through the turf, I've lost some distance using these because I was hitting the new T-MB which 3 iron went a mile, but the 3 iron in the MB's is what dreams are made of, way easy to hit and launch, I wouldn't want to mess with it, that being said I did increase the lie up 2 degrees for my swing:). IG: golfer_scott The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. Shane Lowry on the new Srixon ZX Mk II line (fairway wood, utility, ZX5/ZX7 irons). Backups:Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. The club was designed and built with certain characteristics. It will reduce the bounce of the club, but the actual effect will depend on your swing path. Or, is the bounce all the same? I teach golf on the Eastern side of Michigan where I am the Director of Instruction for three golf courses. OK, quick question. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. Titleist 620 MB 5-9 Oban CT 125 Well driving iron to be exact. Thats why I recommend that golfers get fit for irons on golf radar by a certified fitter who understands how loft and COG work together in iron design. The fitter can then analyze a golfers swing pattern and adjust the lie angle accordingly. Another point regarding GI/SGI clubs that I would love to see a fitter touch on is shaft length. The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? 2. All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. I take healthy beaver pelts with short irons, but the 2 iron is just a nip of grass. The GI/SGI clubs are basically directed to help players with lesser abilities to hit the golf ball, usually that also means lower swing speeds. I am a club fitter also and see this every day. A flat lie angle is simply when the heel of the golf club is bent so it is higher than the toe. I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. It just depends. Callaway MD 3 52 bent to 54 [size=4]KBS 610 S+[/size] They know how much torque to put on the hozzel. Show Your True Colors With Mitchell Golfs Custom Color Program. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. Will the clubs dig more or enough to tell a difference? Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 PXG 0311P Gen 3 - 5to PW - Nippon 125 X Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. there comes a time when too much loft jacking is too much. Your previous content has been restored. Lets assume that the launch angle with a modern-lofted set of irons is ideal. **. I have to explain that the design allows the iron to have a stronger loft. Not fact but I do think more offset makes it easier to draw the ball. DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. We also see these players having gapping issues with a mid iron, not just 4 and 5 like your example, so adding loft achieves better gapping as well. I have read that if you bend 1 degree strong you lower the bounce on the iron. Worked very well IMO in terms of reducing spin You will need to check your distances with these gapped lofts. Distance is fine, but I have an overly high flight in the wind. I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. Below, you'll see the results. Bravo, As a club fitter who deals with players that purchase equipment based on what their ego tells them they need verses the facts this is a breath of fresh air! Copyright 2020 GolfWRX Holdings, LLC. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? Your email address will not be published. From my research into various golfer communities, it is highly likely that if you are reading this blog post you probably are playing to somewhere between a 5 and 16 handicap. Now I learned to shape the flight high and low at any given moment. 4-AW with juiced lofts is the same set as an old 3-PW that would probably be 22*-48*. If so why mess with perfection. He hasnt let that chance go, and while the opening nine events certainly havent been stunning seven missed cuts he showed up at Bermuda, finishing 35th after entering Sunday inside the top-15. The sole on that thing is tiny compared to any driving iron and I still had no trouble hitting it off the deck. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. Display as a link instead, Contact Us Good luck! Brent Grantcould very well be one of the seasons fairy stories by September, having already secured his 2022/23 card with a stunning 50-foot birdie putt on the last hole of the Korn Ferry Tour Championship enough to finish 11th and sneak in. On a driver? Getting your first putt inside three feet will greatly improve your score. That is a two club difference. Thanks for everybody for your help! Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X There is no question that golf is one of the hardest, if not the hardest, games in which to become reasonably proficient. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. But there is a lot more to it than that. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. So I changed my swing to compress the ball better instead, and just took extra club and swing easy. if we move from a "high launch" to a Low launch shaft, who reduce loft by 2* we also lost 2* bounce. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights. Even with the knowledge of club bending and its importance on your play, there are a lot of misconceptions about what can and cant be done with a clubs loft and lie. Great article! Here are common ball flight issues if you are playing the wrong lie angle: Unfortunately, club manufacturing companies sometimes use different lie angles for their clubs. I have read that it can create "diggers" is this true? Even forged clubheads made of the wrong steel . In some cases "craftsman's" marks on the hosels may result from bending them to the required loft / lie. The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. How accurate are the loft and lie readings of clubs straight from the manufacturer? One good example comes to mind. You get to replace the 4 iron thats gone with something you can get in the air. A 4 iron only has 1 degree of bounce standard so will I have negative bounce when bent two degrees strong? My miss is hitting it fat, so I was especially concerned with how bending them strong would affect bounce. Best of luck.Chuck. You may want to try searching if you need more info. If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. Sounds like it's a long iron. Your email address will not be published. Ping G410 Plus Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited Upload or insert images from URL. There only seems to be one logical reason to do this and thats just in the odd situation where someone needs more bounce. Simply put, bending the iron 6.5 degrees strong wasn't an option. If you've got 2* upright and don't need that configuration, the heel will dig in and you'd pull the shots left (right handed). United States. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. Ultimately, your answer is yes, you can do this. Your link has been automatically embedded. With all due respect, I am not saying you do not, but club fitters do this all the time and if they mess it up then they can replace the club. Barring physical limitations, anyone can learn to hold the club properly, and you can practice it anywhere from the sofa in front of your TV to your office while on a call. This puts a 5 iron at 60* and that is way too flat for most people. We dont stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.. Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. Odyssey 2-ball Pro-Type milled face putter. Couldn't agree more with your entire post. Your golf ball starts off towards the left of your target (right for lefties). Here are some of the facts, and fallacies, about club adjustment. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 Bag Old School Jones Original non stand. And you are right about the irons listed, X Hot is a shockingly low launching iron and the G25 would be the exact opposite, with Rocketbladez mixed in the middle. It can be re-bent without any adverse effect on it. Golfers should liken their iron fittings to that of a driver. You cannot paste images directly. Among full-swing clubs, drivers have the lowest degrees of loft (some pros use drivers with as little as 7 degrees of loft; most recreational golfers use drivers lofted at 9 to 14 degrees). Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? I am purchasing new irons and am seriously considering getting the lofts 2* weak to create a 48* PW and 4* loft spacing. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. I just purchased a new set of 716MB irons. ProV1x-mostly. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. For this discussion, lets define proficiency as the level where you can reasonably expect to move the ball around the course efficiently and consistently enough to shoot 90 or better, though your own goals might be somewhere lower. Lower lofts will travel a bit farther and a bit lower, higher lofts will travel a bit less and fly a bit higher. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. Taking the destructive shot out of your game is key. Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. Generall, Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. You cannot paste images directly. If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. So, it is my contention that conditions on the course often vary much more than changing the dynamics of a club by a degree or two. You hit the golf ball off of the heel of the club often causing the golf ball to hook or pull, You are playing clubs too short for you (again. With your height you obviously need to be fit properly. VokeySM6 Raw- 50F, Scotty Cameron X5R Flow Neck Torched Finish. I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. An ideal Launch Angle and Spin Rate for a Ball Speed with a 6 iron of 115 MPH would be right about 15-16* and 6000 RPMs respectively. The drop off in make percentage from 3-6 feet and 6-9 feet is huge. Its not about research or information, its about ego and emotion. 2023 Acushnet Company. Driver: Cobra Amp Cell Pro (8.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila RIP Phenom 3-wood: Titleist 906F4 (13.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila NV 7-wood: Michael Hopper whats in the bag accurate as of the WM Phoenix Open.